The Hatewatch blog is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based civil rights organization.

WND and Glenn Beck Want YOU to Build an Untraceable Assault Rifle

By Leah Nelson on May 3, 2013 - 8:27 am, Posted in Extremist Commerce

We live in frightening times. In Boston, a college student who appears to have been radicalized online may face lethal injection for his alleged role in a terrorist attack that left four people dead and more than 260 wounded. Just a few months ago, in Connecticut, a young man killed 20 young children and six adults before shooting himself with one of numerous guns borrowed from his mother’s arsenal.

While America is searches its soul, attempting to make sense of these and other horrific attacks that have rocked the nation with disturbing regularity over the last several years, gun rights absolutists have flooded the Internet and airwaves with wild-eyed talk of sinister government plans to undermine the Second Amendment and disarm harmless American patriots.

At the bottom of the barrel are those who seek to profit off these national tragedies. That’s where you’ll find Caleb Lee, a veteran huckster who has partnered with WorldNetDaily, Glenn Beck and others to offer anyone with $27 information on how to built a completely untraceable AR-15 assault rifle in the comfort of their own garage.

Lee is the proprietor of UndergroundAssaultRifle.com, a Virginia-based business whose sole product is a set of videos and do-it-yourself manual which purports to tell purchasers everything they need to know about crafting copies of the assault rifle used recently in massacres in Newtown, Conn., and Aurora, Colo.

A self-described “red-blooded American” and proud “capitalist” (not, he emphasizes in his online ad, “a ‘spread the wealth’ socialist like those fools in the Whitehouse for crying out loud”), Lee has partnered with far-right media outfits including the online “news” site WorldNetDaily (WND) and Glenn Beck’s TV network and website, TheBlaze, to promote his new business. As of Thursday evening, WND, whose editors never met a conspiracy theory they didn’t like, featured a link to Lee’s ad on its front page, where it shared space with headlines warning direly of a “Saul Alinsky plot to vilify guns” and speculating that the nasty weather that scuttled plans to hoist a spire to the top of theWorld Trade Center on Monday was sent by an angry God to punish America for abandoning Him.

Beck’s site, meanwhile, featured its own front-page link to Lee’s ad (“See how to get an untraceable AR-15 before it’s banned”), along with a promotion for his upcoming keynote address at this weekend’s National Rifle Association (NRA) convention in Houston, a video about “Obama’s private army,” a think piece on whether the late Ronald Reagan would have supported gay marriage, and a “must-read” item about the “mysterious Jesus-era stone” that’s sparked “major debate among scholars.”

Lee, whose site is emblazoned with WND and TheBlaze’s logos, fits right in. His long-winded ad is replete with references to “crooks and fat cat lobbyists” in Washington, who together with their friends, the “power-hungry anti-gun puppets,” are even now “making serious headway at turning the country against Second Amendment supporters like us.” (“Serious headway”? Last time we checked, about 90% of Americans supported some kind of restriction on gun rights, but the U.S. Senate – which supposedly represents them – couldn’t overcome pressure from the gun lobby to muster the votes necessary to pass the most innocuous of gun control proposals.)

Near the beginning of his pitch, Lee warns watchers who “think I’m some far right wacko who is making a big deal out of ‘common sense’ gun control laws” to “LEAVE this page right now.”

We stayed anyway.

Lee’s pitch is simple. He explains that the key component of an AR-15 is a part called the “stripped receiver,” which holds the guts of the weapon – “the actual part of the AR-15 that’s considered the ‘firearm’ by the ATF.” Stripped receivers are hard to come by these days, and they are typically manufactured with serial numbers. But Lee claims to have uncovered a source that sells unfinished receivers, which, “because they still need some holes drilled and other modifications … [are] NOT considered firearms by any authority!”

Channeling Wayne LaPierre, the NRA’s increasingly unhinged executive vice president, Lee urges his fellow Americans to stand against the government’s “jack-booted thugs” by buying his system today.

“Underground Assault Rifle is a simple, step-by-step system that puts YOU in control of your Second Amendment rights and frees you forever from slavery and servitude to the lawmakers in Washington … so you can protect your home and family no matter what happens,” Lee boasts in his ad. Buy today and you’ll get six videos, a how-to manual, and a “special report” on “the only place to hide your guns that the government will never find!”

This apparently isn’t Lee’s first rodeo. When Hatewatch typed his name into Google, the search engine’s helpful auto-complete function suggested we might be looking for “Caleb Lee superdiet scam.” It appears that a couple of years ago, Lee irritated customers who bought the first few books in his “superdiet” scheme by sending repeated E-mails insisting that they purchase additional items from his online store.

UndergroundAssaultRifle.com, which Lee registered just this Feb. 19, does not have an online reputation to speak of.

Not yet, anyway. But a quick perusal of a portion of Lee’s do-it-yourself manual suggests that buyers who shell out $27 for Lee’s “system” may be disappointed – not least because, like most information these days, it’s available for free online. As it turns out, Lee doesn’t offer direct access to suppliers at all. Rather, he rather instructs readers to use Google to search for unfinished stripped receivers, jury-rig a drill press and use it as a mill. (A word to the wise: A 2002 discussion thread on an AR-15 fan site suggests that using a drill press to machine an AR-15 is a very, very bad idea which could result in injury to both you and your drill press.)

Lee suggests that his readers use the Internet to buy or barter for the remaining parts of their homemade assault rifle. Easy as pie, right?

Lee thinks so. “At this point, there’s really only three simple choices. … You can bury your head in the sand [and] continue ignoring my warnings and my offers of help and still be stuck without a AR-15 that is 100% ‘off the books’ – FOREVER”; “You can try to figure all this out [on] your own”; or “you can TAKE CONTROL of your life and get the guidance and advice I’m offering,” he writes.

“Do that now, and I’ll see you on the other side in just minutes!” Signing off, “For our freedoms, Caleb Lee.”

  • Sean

    It is important to note that the mass shootings of late were all perpetrated by mentally ill people. Many other weapons crime are committed by the poor. Perhaps addressing these issues would help reduce the amount of gun deaths. The fact is, gun ownership is legal and a right. Also, many countries that ban weapons still have gun deaths or murder by other means.

  • Ignorance 101

    Ah, I see, sorry my search for statistics did not include “Inflated numbers by anti-gun activists and their affiliates”. When I search for statistics I generally try to narrow my search to recognized entities who at least make the attempt to give off the appearance of impartiality. It clearly helps the “Mayors Against Illegal Guns” to inflate the numbers, but that doesn’t make their “Polling Data” true…

    LoL, I mean really aadila….. would you accept statistics provided by the NRA? I doubt it, so please don’t expect me to stand there with my head flopping back and forth like a bobble head doll while you spew inflated numbers. It makes you no better than Beck and the rest of the goons.

    As far as I’m concerned, the only reason a person would not report their firearm as stolen is that they were breaking the law possessing it. So am I concerned that guns are being stolen from criminals by other criminals? Sorry, one criminal is the same as the next in my book. I mean one illegal gun passing hands and continuing to be an illegal gun? Now who’s splitting hairs?

    I’m a little confused though, how am I obfuscating the problem? It’s clear we differ on what causes criminality. I think it’s caused by Criminal subculture allowed to run rampant, social and financial inequality, Drugs, a myriad of other smaller impacts and an inability of our legislative branch and even our local governments to tackle the problems facing people everyday. You think it’s because Devil guns possess the souls of innocent citizens and force them to commit crimes they would never have thought to commit before the evil of guns infected their souls….

    To support my opinion I’ve made statistics by impartial agencies and worldwide accepted studies available. You have offered nothing but rhetoric and inflated imitation statistics.

    Let me explain the fallacy of “Polling”. Did they call every house in the US and ask every person individually whether they had a firearm stolen from them? No, they polled a small area whose high crime numbers would give them the results they wanted, then called that a “Common Cross-section of America” Then transferred those numbers to reflect EVERY city in the US. Those to the far right and left often do this in order to obfuscate the truth and invent numbers to say exactly what they want them to. Anyone who claims to be as intelligent as you ought to know this….

    My concern is crime. I don’t care if a person uses a gun, a knife, a crowbar or a rock to commit a crime. In my opinion the smoke and mirrors here is the poorly drafted gun control legislation. They bill it as a cure all for crime which it is not and draft it so pathetically you wonder how many minutes they bothered to take mulling it over before revealing their legislation to the public. This amounts to nothing but posturing by these career politicians in order to get lobbyist money and line their own pockets at our expense.

    Just the fact that you can find no fault with my previous post and can only complain that I called out your poorly researched statistics leads me to believe that you are in full agreement, just too stubborn to admit it… So, tanks I guess….

  • aadila

    The data on gun thefts was collected from gun owners by Republican pollster Frank Luntz in December 2012, and commissioned by the city government group Mayors Against Illegal Guns. These figures were substantiated in the House of Representatives, and are in parity with earlier data. If you did even cursory research you would have had that pop up immediately.

    Obviously gun thefts are not being reported in America. The question is, why? Duh. No law to require reporting. That, and the fact that over time, millions of guns are getting into the hands of criminals because of the free wheeling gun trade in America.

    That data conflict you point out suggests to me that the problem is not merely that guns are getting stolen, but the millions of illegal guns circulating are off the radar of even official sources. Does it not bother you a little that no one knows how many illegal guns are circulating?

    The point is not whether the number is a half a million or a quarter of a million that get stolen, but why are criminals getting access to guns? How many guns per year getting stolen is acceptable? A quarter of million guns each year is okay to you?

    I think those numbers are screamingly high. How many guns to be transferred to criminals before you wake up and see there is a problem with how we are regulating gun ownership in America?

    Either you lack critical thinking skills to sort out the reasons behind data conflicts, or you simply don’t care. Or maybe you pull the lowest number in hopes that nearly a quarter of million guns getting into the wrong hands each year can be pawned off on American voters as a good thing.

    But it’s not a good thing and anyone with half a brain can see that. Splitting hairs over the data is merely a cynical obfuscation of the problem, when even the lowest available figures are like a river of guns pouring into a delta of death.

  • Ignorance 101

    Sorry for the late reply, Vacation called and this took a second tier LoL.

    Reynardine, Kudos on the Capitol comment. Nothing says corruption like having 2 of our last Governors serving federal time… We’ve had some pretty bad lots here in this State.

    Aron:

    “But it is also a proven fact that households which own guns are much likely to experience accidental shooting deaths than those that aren’t.”

    I don’t think “Don’t” would have fixed this sentence, but I’m happy my “Grammar Police” etiquette was clearly all you could fault my last statement for…

    As far as “Getting stronger doors and windows” Here we travel down your usual path of making statements that are either patently ridiculous or simply have no merit. In training we consistently made entry into a myriad of doors. I can say that there is virtually no structural difference between a $100 entry door and a $2000 entry door. In either case a large hammer and a wrecking bar you can pick up at your local hardware store for about $16 makes short work of one.

    Perhaps growing up, your family was wealthy enough to purchase a solid steel home with vault doors. My family was not…

    aadila,

    No statistic bears out the 600,000 number you quote. I’m curious to know where you got that figure. The study by the Bureau of Justice Statistics and published by the DOJ states that approximately 230,000 guns are stolen each year. Alot of guns without you multiplying it by 3, so probably not needed…

    My “Anecdote” was a personal experience and the exact reason I find Arons opinion a little laughable. It’s easier I suppose to consider numbers just numbers unless you’ve been affected by them. I’m not sure why you felt the need to add in your statement about some 5 year old blowing his head off. Shock value maybe? An owned gun is not necessarily an unsecured gun, there are plenty of gun ready safes with biometrics for those paranoid folks. Besides, responsible parenting is a side issue not caued by gun ownership. There will always be idiots, and thanks to great medical care Darwinism is failing…

    “I can never say it enough: correlation is not causation”

    Do they have that written down somewhere on the net? Strangely I have seen the exact same verbiage used by someone to explain exactly why gun control laws don’t work after they were quoted a statistic from a city that had gun control laws and saw a downturn in crime…

    Why? Because that is simply an excuse people use when their opinion is not borne out by facts. They are happy to point out the times that what they believe has seemed to have an impact but simply unwilling to apply the same logic to the times it is not. Using such circular logic, one could point out that if guns are banned in the United States, people would then blame Mexico or Canada, then South America, Honduras and so forth… for the failure of crime reduction…. And since it’s implausible the banning of guns would get worldwide approval the excuse making would never end. Frankly I’m not interested in a long series of excuses that would span decades, I’d like some actual results in a timely fashion.

    The truth is, when gun control is coupled with programs that directly address the root of crime in the areas they are implemented there is always an impact. When the root causes are not addressed, there is no discernible impact.

    What bears out as fact is that addressing the root causes of crime in the area is the ONLY thing that causes an impact and that stricter gun control laws statistically have had little or no impact on crime. Personally I think it’s not that some gun control measures are not needed, it’s just that this legislation is historically so poorly drafted that it has little hope of affecting crime overall. Other than registration and some background checks there hasn’t been any truly meaningful gun control legislation since 1934.

    It’s a standpoint that shouldn’t even have to be explained. Placing a gun in someones hand does not make them into a criminal, so it isn’t the “free wheeling gun trade” that makes criminals, it’s the Culture of Crime, Poverty, Drug use, Inequality, poor choices, mental health, and a myriad of other impacts on daily life. If even some of these things were addressed on a Nationwide basis we would see a real impact on crime as a whole, and that is why we should see legislation to address these issues.

    Instead we see nothing but grandstanding by Politicians in order to secure themselves another term, whose refusal to address the real issues underlying the crimewave that sweeps across our front yards puts our families in danger.

    Why? I can only think of a few reasons.

    They are too lazy to draft meaningful legislation.

    These programs cost money they don’t want to divert from their pockets and private projects in order to fund them.

    They do not want to stop crime, because a populace with a culture of fear “Needs” a government to protect them and will give up their own freedoms in order to get this protection. (“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” B.F.)

    Finally, I realize there is a Presumption of propriety with police, but since that doesn’t bear out in real life and corruption and abuses of power Are prevalent and well documented, I just don’t see how that would apply to the question I posed. I have no wish to be at the mercy of jackbooted thugs. But the question posed was:

    “Why is it necessary for law enforcement to have handguns that carry 15 rounds in order to “protect” us and we can not?”

    This has nothing to do with whether police should be trusted or not, this has to do with the ability of oneself to protect themselves and their own. Criminals will not obey the laws, that’s what makes them Criminals. There will be high capacity magazines available, because the police will have them (And Mexico, South America, Honduras…..Your logic….). So then, because of that availability, Criminals will get them. This will have effectively disarmed only the law abiding citizen and left criminals with a devastating firepower advantage. (Sorry I think Tactically, it’s the training)

    Law enforcement believes this also, which is the largest reason they state explaining why they should have the right to carry high capacity magazines. They have repeatedly stated a need for exemption from the ban, not because they are morally upright, but because they would be unable to defend themselves and citizens against all the criminals who would ignore the law without it.

  • aadila

    Ignorance 101 said,

    on May 17th, 2013 at 8:31 am

    LoL Erika, sorry, I was writing that it was the crime Capitol of our State and got distracted.

    Sure you did. Looks like Erika caught you telling stories.

  • aadila

    Aron needs firearms to shoot his Brussels sprouts. He has stated that he likes young collards, so he can insure his cruciferous intake that way.

    I’m glad he sees it won’t kale him, Rey.

  • Aron

    Ignoramoose, you’re faulting me because I accidentally didn’t write ‘don’t?’ Sieg Heil, mein Grammar-Nazi freunde!

    If your house was robbed four times when you were growing up, maybe you should have gotten stronger doors and windows. I am certainly not against weapons for home defense, as you seem to think I am.

    For someone apparently opposed to snark, I think you’re being pretty damned hypocritical.

  • Reynardine

    True enough, Iggy. Every actual Illinoian, especially those of us from Cook County (I was born there), knows the capital is Springfield, the hotbed of corruption. Regardless of party affiliation, “Governor of Illinois” seems to be a pretty good predictor of “guest of the U. S. Bureau of Prisons”, and they all first resided in Springfield.

    As for my native city, it’s damned close to the Indiana line, and transport into Chicago is fast and easy. That’s why there has to be * national* regulation of these weapons.

  • aadila

    Ignorance,

    Valid point about addressing the root causes of violence. I’ve been saying that all along. But you seem to overlook the fact that the free-wheeling gun trade in the country is what arms criminals. The economic violence that goes on in corporate boardrooms and corruption, institutional racism, and failures all accross the educational system are all the roots of gangs and urban violence. Where do you think the gangs get their guns?

    There are about 600,000 firearms stolen from homes each year. Those go to criminals. Those go to gangs. The are stolen in Oklahoma, get filed off and go to Illinois. Every credible law enforcement agency will admit, either reluctantly or openly, that one of the most frequent motives for home and car break ins is to obtain guns from ordinary citizens.

    And regarding a medical authorization for purchasing a firearm to ensure, as with sleeping pills, that a doctor has at least had professional purview over the risk of depression or other serious mental illness, the use of FOID in Illinois does not extend to other states. And as I pointed out, nationwide there are not such reasonable precautions in place. So the guns march to Chicago anyway, thanks to the NRA.

    Actuary evidence has also shown having a firearm in the home raises the likelihood of death or personal injury in general, even if the weapon can also be used for self defense. Your personal anecdote about fending off a villain is moving, but unfortunately there are plenty of families whose five year olds blew themself away because mommy and daddy were paranoid and stored a loaded gun near the bed.

    Furthermore your argument about the high gun violence and strict gun control laws in Chicago is a logical fallacy. I can never say it enough: correlation is not causation. What would happen if Illinois became like Mississippi and dropped its gun control laws? Chances are the gun violence would get even worse. The reason why violence continues is complex, and pointing just to FOID laws as a failure overlooks the other factors involved. Gun control is one component of a safer society.

    “Why is it necessary for law enforcement to have handguns that carry 15 rounds in order to “protect” us and we are not?”

    This is a complex question but I think the simple answer is that police have a powerful presumption of propriety and qualified immunity. All the more reason for the Justice Department to ruthlessly weed out the bad cops and restore order in the ranks when cronyism and coverups become the norm. As to retired cops in NYC wanting their guns, the issue seems trivial when looked at in the national scope. Such an argument should never be posed against the common sense rule of a universal background check for long guns, even (perhaps especially) for transfers of used guns.

  • Ignorance 101

    LoL Erika, sorry, I was writing that it was the crime Capitol of our State and got distracted.

  • aadila

    Erika said,

    on May 16th, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    i kind of like the idea of banning all of the guns in the world – but its not really feasible :)

    It’s also not feasible to stop all vehicular homicide by drunks but we can at least take steps in that direction to limit the harm. It’s not feasible to ensure buildings will never collapse, but we can have building codes to make it less likely. Just because some people will still get salmonella doesn’t mean we should do away with food safety regulations. It is the same with guns. This idea that we need to start selling firearms at hot dog stands to whoever walks up simply because they already exist in the world never quite made sense to me.

  • Erika

    ignorance 101, if you don’t want people to think that you live down to the standards of your name you should realize that Chicago is not the capital of Illinois :P

  • Ignorance 101

    Aron, a compilation and study of National Crime Statistics show that An estimated 3.7 million household burglaries occurred this past year. The study performed by the DOJ shows that one in every thirty-six homes are burglarized each year.

    In about 28% of these burglaries, a household member was present during the burglary.

    In 7% of all household burglaries (266,560), a household member experienced some form of violent victimization.

    As I was growing up, our house was robbed 4 times, once while my mother, older brother and myself were home. In that case my mother had a shotgun and scared them off. So I’m sorry if I don’t happen to agree with you, but it looks like even the statistics don’t bear your opinion as true.

    “But it is also a proven fact that households which own guns are much likely to experience accidental shooting deaths than those that aren’t.”

    I won’t bother correcting your Grammar, but you are under the impression that the millions of houses that are broken into each year and the over quarter of a million people violently victimized is a small number compared to the roughly 15,000 accidental shootings averaged each year only 606 of which resulted in death in 2010 (The last year for which a formal study was done)? Seems like pretty skewed logic to me….

    aadila, Do I think getting a prescription for my gun is too strict? No, in fact I already get a “Prescription” for my gun that I have to renew every five years. It’s called a FOID card. I am also required to register each of my weapons with the state. Despite having some of the strictest gun control laws in the US, our capital Chicago has repeatedly topped the charts for gun violence and won the highest number of gun homicides award last year (Hooray?).

    Recently they decided not to just sit back and harp on gun control as they have for more than a decade of rising crime and instead started funding anti-gang initiatives and public awareness groups. Finally we’re starting to see some headway this year against violent crime. We can only hope it catches on after having one of the deadliest Januaries in more than 12 years.

    Reynardine, I agree with most of your statement. What I don’t agree with is the definition of “Assault” weapons implied by this last legislative measure that the government tried to pass. Why? I own 2 weapons for home defense/safety.

    One is a shotgun. It is poor judgement to wield a full sized shotgun in your home, If you’ve ever held one you know. The size makes it difficult to manage and it is frankly impractical. We don’t want to add to Aron’s accidental shooting statistics. So the barrel of mine has been changed to shorten the length by 2 inches. Not much but it helps. I have the same length barrel to hunt waterfowl. The full sized buttstock has been replaced by a pistol grip. The previous proposals would make this an assault weapon despite the fact it’s not even semi automatic, but pump action and only carries 3-4 rounds (4 if one is chambered).

    The second weapon I have for home defense is a Sig Sauer .40 with a 12 round magazine (I did not purchase this magazine separately, this was the magazine that came with it from the factory for all weapons of this make produced that year). When I purchased this weapon (and still today) it was one of the preferred weapons of law enforcement and the FBI for protection. That is what convinced me to purchase it. This would also become a banned weapon and considered an “Assault” weapon despite the fact it will remain a preferred weapon for law enforcement.

    Recently New York city passed a law that limited the states magazine capacity from 10 to 7 rounds. In their haste to pass it, and forgetting that nearly every law enforcement agency in the state carries handguns that have a 15-round capacity, they forgot to add an addendum that law enforcement were exempt from this law. This was met with widespread outrage amongst the law enforcement community, including the RETIRED law enforcement officers who were previously exempt from any restrictions from the state.

    They have since stated that they will place the exemption into law as soon as possible and current and retired law enforcement officers will be exempted from the restriction. My question is:

    Why is it necessary for law enforcement to have handguns that carry 15 rounds in order to “protect” us and we are not? They have repeatedly cited reasons that this discrepancy must exist. They say that a policeman could not protect themselves or the public under such restrictions (yet the public must?). That the criminals would clearly not obey the law, and so Law enforcement must be prepared to protect themselves and the public against such violators (And the public shouldn’t?)

    Michael Palladino, the head of the patrolman’s union said “Gun reform must prevent criminals and the deranged from getting illegal weapons—not restrict law-abiding retired cops from protecting themselves and the public,”

    How about law abiding Citizens? If even retired law enforcement is exempt from these laws it creates a glaring double standard. I have abided by the law my whole life, Served my Country, and trained for proficiency with weapons that standard citizens may never even touch. I do not possess any weapons (in my opinion) that are created solely for the purpose of rapid mass slaughter of human beings and yet this legislation would brand me as such and a criminal to boot.

    This is why I think that legislation needs to be well thought out and reasoned. “Just getting something on the books” isn’t good enough. So many things should not slip through the cracks.

  • Erika

    i kind of like the idea of banning all of the guns in the world – but its not really feasible :)

    ignorance 101 (seriously – who would choose such a name for himself?) most assaults and rapes are committed by people who the victim knows – as a result they do tend to take place in the homes. Very few rapes are the stranger abduction type rapes by some creepy looking guy lurking in the shadows – generally they are conducted by people who the victim knows and voluntarily lets into her home.

    So given that most rapes are conducted by acquantances one would expect that the majority of them are committed in home settings (or dorm rooms).

    the odds of a violent home invasion occuring among someone who is not engaged in illegal activity (such as international narcotics trafficking, orgnaized crime, that sort of thing) are very small. A few cases took place when i was a child and the myth of these dangerous teenaged super predators showed up – so suddenly the myth of home invasions started spreading. It was about as much of a epidemic as all of those “school shootings” that were supposedly taking place when i was in high school (there were a few cases which got huge amounts of publicity but people ingored that children were still more likely to be killed or hurt at home).

    and of course, the real danger to kids in schools from violence isn’t from being shot – it is from corporal punsihment, restraint, and seclusion

  • Reynardine

    Aadila, Aron needs firearms to shoot his Brussels sprouts. He has stated that he likes young collards, so he can insure his cruciferous intake that way.

  • aadila

    Aron, just to clarify, I do not want to ban ALL guns. I think we should destroy all but one. The one left over is to make sure you eat your brussels sprouts.

    Cruciferous veggies aside, my personal view that the world would be better off without so many guns does not translate into the political will of banning them. If I thought that was feasible nationwide I would support it. Obviously it can and should be done locally.

    What sweet lil Lord Humungous seems to overlook is political compromise. And the fact that the concept of a militia was for national defense in organized regiments (as opposed to standing armies), not rugged individualists who think their pistol compensates for an unreliable you know what.

  • Reynardine

    In fact, Ignorance, I have no problem with reasonably mentally sound and responsible people having any of the following, provided they have the sense to keep them away from the kids:

    One or more hunting rifles suited to the game being hunted;
    One or more shotguns suited to the wildfowl being hunted;
    One or more handguns of normal capacity for defense of home or business;
    If rural, a varmint gun for defense of small livestock and a suitable firearm for euthanasia of curelessly Ill or injured animals (it always seems to happen on a dark and stormy night, preferably weekend, when you can’t get a vet).

    No civilian needs weapons designed solely for the rapid mass slaughter of human beings. At a minimum, weapons of that kind should be under constant trace.

    I garden. I have one rooster, and he is a pet. If I were provided with some setting hens, I would not name chicks when they were little. The ones that started to lay eggs would get names. The ones that started to crow would get dinner invitations (No, it’s not sexist. More than one rooster per chicken yard = hannenkampf. And yes, I’ve done it.)

    Incidentally, though sheets on beds are not outlawed, “going in disguise”, as the federal statute puts it, to violate anyone’s rights to life, liberty, or property is itself a federal offense, and as I recall, the statutes of my state track it. It is not invoked to prevent Halloween, but the kind of thing it is supposed to prevent seems pretty much confined to places like Gilchrist County these days.

  • aadila

    ‘I wouldn’t consider going to your local clinic and telling a doctor you can’t sleep in order to garner a prescription “Strict Regulation”. ‘

    Aha! Then clearly you would have no problem requiring a doctor’s prescription to purchase a firearm. Or is that just too strict for you?

    Lets see the weasel go pop.

  • Aron

    Hey Ignoramus,

    I’m pretty certain that the only person here who wants to ban ALL guns is Aadila. I certainly don’t.

    But it is also a proven fact that households which own guns are much likely to experience accidental shooting deaths than those that aren’t.

    And the vast, vast, vast majority of households will never experience a break-in, much less a break-in with violent intent.

    You can go on and on about how great (Ron Paul, I gather) is, but I prefer my politicians to not be Dominionist cult leaders.

  • Ignorance 101

    I’m sorry Aron, but that is incorrect. Suicides are not classified as Violent crime by law enforcement or government statistics. Also, your statement is inherently false. Running a stop sign is illegal, yet not a violent crime. Violent Crime is not a classification of legality.

    Reynardine, You may have been talking about firearm deaths, My statement that you jumped in on was concerning violent crime and the poorly hatched efforts to quell it. As I said, better to add some specificity to your statements so they can be more easily deciphered.

    Sheets are not designed to kill, but banning sheets has about as much probability of stopping Klan rallies as banning guns has of stopping Suicides. 5% of suicide attempts involve a firearm according to data released over a 5 year study from the FBI. These attempts are more deadly, but not the preferred method of suicide. As far as sleeping pills go, I wouldn’t consider going to your local clinic and telling a doctor you can’t sleep in order to garner a prescription “Strict Regulation”.

    You know, if I wanted uneducated commentary and snarky comments filled with baseless rhetoric, I could go to the Fox News forums. I’ve managed to respond respectfully without resorting to childish name-calling (Something that some are apparently incapable of), despite the fact the only source you can apparently cite for the one fact you have presented that is backed up is me quoting a DOJ statistic in order to go off the subject….

    I’ve always been a little baffled about what the point was. Who should I trust the defense of my family to? The Government whose concern for human rights brought us Guantanamo Bay and Waterboarding? The same one who sponsored China being brought into the WTO and given most favored nation status despite having one of the most abhorrent records of Human Rights Violations on the planet?

    My “Shooting Pleasure” now consists of hunting for my food and target shooting in order to make sure I can hunt efficiently. I haven’t had a use for “Assault” weapons or firing them on others since I was a member of the Armed Forces (in the Line of Duty). So I’m not sure what your insinuating. I can only assume that you feel every person who owns a gun is some kind of Right Wing Gun Nut or criminal just waiting for the time they can kill… Toddlers apparently?…..

    I’d have to respectfully disagree. I come from a Military family that hunts, not for sport, for food. It’s a way of life I can agree the more privileged in society cannot understand, but I will teach my children to hunt and garden as well because I believe that a persons ability to be independent and support themselves and their family even in times of adversity is paramount, and our family has found itself in hard times more than once.

    More people die from secondhand smoke every year than from guns according to a 10 year study by the National Cancer Institute, backed by the ACS. So personally I’d consider Smoking more of an issue than guns if all you are concerned with is the deaths and not Violent Crime. Smoking kills 443,000 every year… Including Toddlers…

  • aadila

    Isn’t it curious that the same political bloc which supports “right to life” is gleefully enthusiastic about getting guns into the hands of people who want to kill themselves? I can’t speak for Jesus, but I suspect He frowns on guns in general. I also think He frowns on the Republicans.

  • Reynardine

    I was speaking of gun *deaths*, most aptly named Ignorance. Sheets are not designed to kill. Guns are, and they do. Suicidal impulses seldom come to fruition if there is not an easy and apparently painless means at hand. That is usually either a gun or a massive amount of sleeping pills, which is why the latter is strictly regulated. The former is not. But let us not spoil your shooting pleasure, Mr. Ignorance is Bliss. That is infinitely more important than thousands of lives, especially the easily-replaced toddlers, whose parents are young enough to breed more. After all, they all look alike.

  • Aron

    Hey Ignorance,

    Suicide is illegal in many places, smart ass. Thus making it a violent crime.

  • Ignorance 101

    Ah, I see where you got that number now. Sorry, I thought we were talking about violent crime, I wasn’t aware you were blaming guns for Suicide…. A little like blaming sheets for Klan rallies don’t you think?

  • Ignorance 101

    Dear Reynardine,

    Which 33,000 deaths are you referring to? According to national crime statistics compiled and released by the FBI there have been 934 mass shooting deaths (killings that involve the slaying of 4 or more victims) in the past 7 years. Half of which where the result of domestic violence.

    When you spoke of the “Miniscule” number of people killed during home invasions I just thought you might like some information on it to help you clarify your comment. According to a study provided by by the Department of Justice, 38% of assaults and 60% of rapes occur in the home during an invasion. In the United States there were over 3,600,000 each year between 1994 and 2005. So, yes, compared to those incidents, the 934 doesn’t seem like that big of a number and I’m not sure why you felt the need to belittle my concerns.

    Please cite any studies or facts about numbers you post when you are responding to me and be a little more specific. Just a heads up though, I do not consider your friends blog or youtube as an official source for facts…

    Regards.

  • Reynardine

    Dear Ignorance: I’m sorry I made so much fuss over thirt-three thousand deaths. ‘Twas but a trifle. Nothing to spoil your shooting pleasure over.

  • Ignorance 101

    @ Reynardine: “Two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides. In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicide deaths, and 14,078 firearm-related homicide deaths in the United States” According to National Vital Statistics.

    In 2010, according to the FBI, less than 1 percent of those homicide victims were killed in mass shootings, and only 28 percent of those were killed using “Assault weapons or high capacity firearms” So that would make the mass shootings with Assault Weapons that get so much attention about .2% of all murders committed here.

    Sorry I don’t have more up to date statistics for you. Sources for subsequent years, though they mirror the statistics from the 2010 study, do not have multiple sources I can fact check them with to verify their validity and I’d prefer not to quote anything I can’t verify.

    The effects of these killings are tragic, but the truth is if they weren’t the only murders the media bothered to report anymore they would be a one sentence blurb in the day. It’s simply all the time they would have to devote to them considering all the other rapes, robberies, and murders.

    My problem is that they wasted more than a year drafting legislation that has less than a possible .5% impact on violent crime in the United States and a 0% chance of getting passed, particularly after Joe Biden stated they were just trying to get a watered down ineffectual policy on the books so they could independently amend it later. (The fact he could publicly state that is a slap in the face to everyone in my book)

    They did this instead of taking on the inequalities in the Criminal Justice System or addressing Poverty, Homelessness, Drug use, Overburdening costs of Student Loans, the deplorable rates of recidivism for sexual offenders who receive light sentences and go on to repeat offend again and again…. Or ANY of the other major issues we have here in this country, just so both sides could APPEAR to be doing something meaningful while doing nothing at all.

    Why? Because nothing gets people in a shouting match quicker than “Sweet Jaysus! Theys a goin’ after our Guns!” or “Only my bodyguards and the Government should be allowed to own Guns”

    The result? A sensational news story we can all lose to…. What a waste.