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Oath Keepers to Form ‘Civilization Preservation’ Teams in Anticipation of Societal Collapse

By Ryan Lenz on October 2, 2013 - 4:55 pm, Posted in Militias, New World Order

The Oath Keepers are going operational.

An article posted to the group’s website Tuesday announced the formation of “Civilization Preservation” units, basely loosely on the organization of U.S. Special Forces teams, to provide “community security and support during crisis” – but also “to assist in forming and training town and county militias.”

These comically named 12-person teams would consist of two communications experts, two medics, two combat engineers, two weapons experts, two operations leaders, a commander and his assistant – positions that would be filled by the law enforcement officers and former military personnel who comprise the Oath Keepers. The Oath Keepers imagines that these units would be  scattered across the country, working with other veterans organizations such as the VFW, American Legion and Marine Corps League, to lead communities “in resistance to oppressive regimes.”

“They can fight, of course,” the e-mail says. “But they are most dangerous as a force-multiplier by helping an entire community to fight.”

It’s the first time the Oath Keepers, part of the antigovernment “Patriot” movement, has moved in the direction of actually establishing any sort of militia or fighting force of its own. While the group’s rallies are sure to bring a fair share of wild conspiracy theories and weapons, Oath founder Stewart Rhodes has heretofore dismissed criticisms of the group by saying the fears that are central to the group’s very identity – all centered around the idea that some sort of tyrannical “New World Order” is looming – are merely hypothetical worries.

With the formation of these units, it seems, Rhodes and his 30,000-plus Oath Keepers have dumped the theoretical in favor of practical preparation for some post-apocalyptic world when the fabric of American civilization begins to fray. The effort also seems to represent a more radical turn for the group.

Signs of the radicalization appeared earlier this year during the debate over gun control following several mass shootings. As the White House worked to enact new gun restrictions, the Oath Keepers responded to the “disarmament freaks” by announcing rallies at the nation’s state houses to warn lawmakers that they would be “held accountable if they choose to dishonor” their oath to the Constitution. Even before that, in December, Rhodes drafted a manifesto entitled “My Personal Pledge of Resistance Against Any Attempt to Disarm Us by Means of an ‘Assault Weapons Ban.’”

“It is the height of Orwellian perversion of language and logic to say that disarming you of the most effective arms for combat that you still have is somehow not really disarming you, because you still have hunting rifles and shotguns,” Rhodes wrote. “And you can bet that if you let them take away your military semi-autos, next on their list will be bolt action rifles, which they will call ‘sniper rifles’ (and by God, that is certainly what they are good for!).”

But that pales in comparison to what Rhodes has now endorsed.

“We will … be force multipliers to help prepare communities so they can preserve civilization by providing their own security, disaster relief, infrastructure preservation, emergency communications, strategic food reserve, and medical care,” the article continued.

What seems lost on the Oath Keepers, however, is that all of this preparation is already in place. It’s called the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

Yes, the same FEMA that in the fevered imaginations of the Patriot movement’s most zealous followers is busily building concentration camps for political dissidents like Rhodes and his Oath Keepers.

  • aadila

    @Wet Marine

    1. No.

    2. Yes.

    “Can you really blame people for being scared when there is a history of this going on and the government lying about it?”

    No.

    “What are you willing to do to protect your rights, freedoms or your family?”

    Vote. Write to legislators with a cordial tone to ensure my voice is heard. Write to the White House in a cordial tone to ensure my voice is heard. Take part in peaceable public assembly and activism. Spread the word. But I will never join a group that flirts with, even nominally, the idea of war on the government. In a representative democracy, the government is the People.

    So, I hope you can see that my concern at least, and probably that of others who oppose the Oath Keepers is not mere ideological opposition to people who see (and are entitled to see) things differently than we do. It is the actions which you are taking that need to be under intense scrutiny. You have taken your political concerns outside the domain of politics and rule of law, into the territory of Somalian warlords who worship the gun and spit on the notion of a LOYAL opposition.

    It seems like you think you are stalwart defenders of traditional liberty and self determination, but what I see is a group of people who have surrendered to paranoia. As unpset and worried as I might be about the stripping away of civil liberties in America, I am far more concerned about the politicization of the bloated military class in our society. Yours is eventually the path of dictatorship.

  • Jeff

    As a veteran and former federal employee, I know the government cannot be trusted to protect the People in time of disaster. Just look at their dismal performance after Katrina. Anyone who relies solely on the government will find themselves totally screwed if the sh-t hits the fan. Also, Obama has proven himself no friend of the American People by using taxpayer money to do deliberate harm to the People during the “shutdown” , spending more to close things that require little or nothing to keep open. Anyone spiteful enough to do that to the people he is elected to serve is far more frightening than a group like Oath Keepers. Remember that the German People trusted Hitler too, until it was too late. History tends to repeat itself.

  • Wet_Marine

    I know that as a member of OK I’m likely not going to be very popular here but I want to ask a few questions.

    1. Do you completely trust the “Federal” Government?

    2. Is there a history of the “Federal” Government lying to the people of our nation?

    These are the three basic questions that I asked myself along time ago. And as a Marine I have an obligation to my brothers and sisters in arms and my nation.

    The sticking point is that there are men and women in Oath Keepers or that want to associate with Oath Keeps that are perceived as extremists. I’ve encountered many of them and like many that have posted here I disagree with many of their sentiments. 9/11 was the failure of people to be imaginative, Chem trails are not real and I stand corrected that the Broom Lake facility does exist, thank you FOIA. But in the defense of some of the people our government lies through both deception and omission regularly. The work of people like Manning and Snowden prove that there are NSA domestic spying and US citizen “kill” lists. Can you really blame people for being scared when there is a history of this going on and the government lying about it?

    The vast majority of us are members of OK for one reason. We believe in the foundational principals of this nation. My mother was an immigrant to this country and though I had dual citizenship for twenty years of my life I would only ever chose to live in the US.

    Last question…

    What are you willing to do to protect your rights, freedoms or your family?

  • aadila

    Larry one thing needs to be clarified — I don’t think the Oathers formed just because Obama is black. I think for some people that was an issue, but not for everyone. I do think most GOP people deny racism of any kind exists and probably have racist tendencies or attitudes that are entrenched because of political opposition to the left wing.

    But this is why I link you to the GOP. The right wing in America has been going increasingly off the deep end for decades – increasingly radical, often violent. and this comes in waves that coincide with a loss in the elections to Democrats. We saw it with Clinton (Oklahoma city bombing) we saw it with Kerry’s campaign (swiftboaters) and we saw it with Obama. The left wing almost never does it. Domestic terror is by and large, a right wing phenomenon, and has been for a long time.

    The problem is the right wing today ss so filled with ignorance and flat out stupidity that this echo chamber of paranoid ideology that comes from talk radio and fringe groups which have been there at least since the early 80s with the “survivalist” movement has now gone mainstream. You people aren’t “congressional scholars”. You pick up some psuedointellectual windbag’s commentary and run with it, claiming to have some “secret” truths.

    The right wing tried every trick in the book to demonize Obama, as cited above in my definition of “extremist”. Unfortunately, with the rise of the Tea Party, and the bankrupting of our country to feed the military and industrial complex (which paradoxically feeds your organization’s members), this kind of extremist activity reached new heights. The right wing loves to declare war on things.

    There are undoubtedly some good people in the Oath Keepers, and I certainly have no problem with my Libertarian or Republican friends and family (yes, I do have such friends and family) but when I see the rhetoric has gone so far right, so far into bananas territory, the way it has gone with the Birthers, the Oathers and all these other organizations who are so convinced the government is out to get them, it is pretty obvious that you guys have lost grip.

    When you start treating the American government as your enemy, and you are actually forming groups gathering weapons and tactics to resist it, It’s time to put the cuckoo back in the clock. You people ceased being patriots long ago.

  • aadila

    “This might be my last response here. I appear to be wasting my time.”

    No, you appear to be unable to answer the question which I originally presented.

    Stewart Rhodes himself frequents the public forum and cheers his supporters on (as does another moderator). Therefore your argument about it not being moderated or representative of Rhodes’ motives is completely false.

    These people I have quoted above represent the grass roots supporters for the Oath Keepers, and some have even been encouraged by the moderators to join the main organization. This is a statement of objective fact, easily verified by anyone who looks at your site, so if there is a “nuh-uh” “yeah-huh” argument here, as you claim, it has everything to do with the fact you have yet to come up with a cogent argument to support your position. Just as Stewart Rhodes has failed to do so.

    Unlike your followers, people here are highly educated and well informed. If you expect me to believe that the secret forums (especially those “off the grid”) where you plot your war on the United States and vent your hatred of democracy are any any different, you will first need to stick to the facts instead of weasel words and fallacies.

    Your claim that “offenders are removed” does not answer my question. Why, if your organization is merely a civic minded group, does it continually draw anti-government extremists in such large numbers, on any given day to the forum? Surely the Lions Club is not having to remove extremists in so many numbers from their site. There is clearly a disconnect between what you are saying and what is clearly visible to anyone who cares to look.

    So you can’t at once say there are no extremists, then say all the extremists are removed. It’s either one or the other. Since I have actually collected quotes to prove my point, why are these extremists coming to you? And, now that this has been exposed, why do you deny it?

    Obviously you can choose to scamper off to your bug out bunker if you wish, but don’t think that you’ve done your organization any favors.

  • Reynardine

    Larry, you’re wasting ours.

  • Aron

    Larry, we have seen plenty of evidence that contradict your positions. I have seen the evidence with my own eyes.

    If you decide to leave and never come back, I can’t say I’d be sad. I have seen the enemy, and he is YOU.

  • Larry

    This is devolving into a “nuh-uh” – “yeah-huh” argument. Many of you are convinced that OK was formed by disgruntled, white GOP because a black man was elected. I posted evidence to the contrary, but it has been ignored because you’ve already made up your minds.

    This might be my last response here. I appear to be wasting my time.

  • Larry

    @Erika

    I never claimed that Ron Paul would have won the GOP nomination. I said that the GOP cheated their own primary/caucus process to ensure that he did NOT. Entire counties were left out of the vote counts in Maine. There were caucuses in other states where the leaders violated their rules of order to disallow Ron Paul supporters from speaking or being counted.

    At the GOP convention, the verbal call for confirmation of Romney met an alarmingly loud “Nay,” but Boener stayed on script and read his teleprompter, saying, “The Ayes have it,” which prompted a chorus of booing.

    The media coverage by both the GOP and Democrat propaganda networks also ignored Ron Paul so blatantly that Jon Stewart – hardly a Ron Paul supporter – mocked them for it.

    Again… I never said he would have won. I said the GOP made sure he didn’t.

  • Larry

    @aadila

    **************************************************
    So, Larry, you are saying Paul’s a Republican but not a _real_ Republican. And that the others are libertarians but not _real_ libertarians. Well, a “no true scotsman” fallacy is at least a step up from the strawman and ad hominem fallacies we so often get on this forum. So I will give you that.
    **********************************************
    My answer was in response to your giant Strawman that Oath Keepers = GOP. Our bylaws clearly state that we are non-partisan. It is true that we have more members who belong to the Huge Intrusive Over-Spending Government Party (R) than we do who belong to the REALLY Huge Intrusive Over-Spending Government Party (D). This does NOT mean we have ANY loyalty to the GOP. I posted two links earlier to support this assertion. Did you bother to read them yet?

    *************************************************
    But to clarify, I am well aware of the Libertarians national platform, some of which is reasonable such as non-interventionism, decriminalization of petty drug offenses, and general respect for civil liberties. Unfortunately, that is mixed in with completely preposterious ideas about going back to a pre Bretton Woods monetary system, dismantling the state altogether,
    ***************************************
    On these points, guilty as charged. But Oath Keepers owes no alliegiance to the Libertarian Party either.

    ***************************************
    and unfortunately, a lot of kissy face with racists, islamaphobes, nativists, paranoid reactionaries, religious fundamentalists, mysogynists, gay bashers and anti-semites, etc., who populate the mainstream right.
    **************************************************

    I don’t know any libertarians who hold those views. Oath Keepers does have its share of people who fit SOME of those descriptions. We do not discriminate based on religion, so “religious fundamentalists” are tolerated. Racists, Islamaphobes, Mysogynists, Homophobes, and Anti-Semites are NOT tolerated. These views violate our bylaws, and people who express them are removed from the organization.

  • Larry

    @aadila

    Larry,

    Let’s step back for a moment to my original point, which is that if the Oath Keepers are like any other conservative, values-driven, civic minded organzation (such as the Lions Club) why is it that you seem to draw so many extremists?

    If you are saying — as you did — that the problem is lack of moderation on the forums. Fine. You are saying, in broad strokes, that the Oath Keepers don’t stand for any of that, turn away the bad apples, and are just ordinary folks who see in Stewart Rhodes a kindly, erudite philanthropist whose goal is to make sure people are safer in America.

    So I ask you once again, if what you say is true, why is it that you have so many hard right, extremist, anti-government, violence-preaching, paranoid, insurrectionist Obama-haters seeking to use your oh-so innocent forum (which has Big Brother emblazoned over Obama’s face) to join hands and communicate subversive, even outright criminal, plans and activities?

    Answer the damn question.
    *********************************************

    You are mixing up the comments on our national website with our forums, which you have never seen nor read unless you are a dues-paying members. Our private forums are moderated by volunteers, and people are sometimes removed from the organization based on things they post there.

    The comments on our national website can be posted by ANYONE, using any name they like. The only time they are moderated in any way is when someone reports something to us.

    If you have read something “subersive, even outright criminal,” please report it so it can be removed.

  • Aron

    All of this talk of Scotsmen makes me hungry for a bag of Walkers haggis-flavored potato crisps and a bottle of Irn Bru. (Because I can’t find any real haggis, and I can’t afford any good Scotch D:)

  • Aron

    Larry, as Rey said I had my names mixed up. The man’s name is Joseph.

    And if you were at Lexington Green, you would have found me to be as diplomatically correct as anyone could possibly wish to be. I didn’t even carry a camera or tape recorder like so many other politically-active folks do. Your leader is simply a charlatan.

    And I also noticed quite a few Oak Tag patches on Kessler supporters during his fracas. So maybe you should keep your own facts straight.

  • Erika

    by exactly one minute :P

  • aadila

    Sorry, Erika. I called No True Scotsman first.

  • Erika

    When you try to argue that Ron Paul is not a “real Republican” you lose whatever creditibilty you’d have (and when you repond to pointing out vile racism and outright insanity on your website you resort to the “No True Scotsman” fallacy you have very little to begin with).

    Ron Paul supports a government which is completely and permanently slanted for the benefit of the ultra rich and corporations at the expense of everyone else. He supports a “limited” government which is small enough to fit inside of a vagina. He favors having the government arrest and imprison people for what they might do in their own bedroom. He was elected to Congress as a Republican and has repeatedly sought the Republican nomination for President. With his limited government for corporations and oppressive government for people he most definitely not any sort of a Libertarian. Instead he is most definitely a Republican – and honestly when you leave aside the desire “to crucify man on a cross of gold” a pretty mainstream one at that.

    and when you try to claim that Ron Paul would have received the Republican nomination but for machinations and a conspiracy by REpublicans against him you sound almost as crazy as the guy who claims that the Newport News Police and the Virginai State Police are inplanting microchips into people to track them and control their minds. i mean, in last year’s Virginia primary where only Ron Paul and Mitt Romney qualified for the ballot he lost handily only getting about 30% of the vote – and there he had the benefit of receiving the vote of every Republican who thought that Mitt Romney was a bozo.

  • aadila

    “Anyone who knows anything about Ron Paul knows that he’s not a real Republican. … … … When I said that Rhodes and other founding members of OK were not Koch-brothers-”beltway” libertarians, I meant it. You calling them something else does not make it so.” (redactions mine, sorry)

    So, Larry, you are saying Paul’s a Republican but not a _real_ Republican. And that the others are libertarians but not _real_ libertarians. Well, a “no true scotsman” fallacy is at least a step up from the strawman and ad hominem fallacies we so often get on this forum. So I will give you that.

    But to clarify, I am well aware of the Libertarians national platform, some of which is reasonable such as non-interventionism, decriminalization of petty drug offenses, and general respect for civil liberties. Unfortunately, that is mixed in with completely preposterious ideas about going back to a pre Bretton Woods monetary system, dismantling the state altogether, and unfortunately, a lot of kissy face with racists, islamaphobes, nativists, paranoid reactionaries, religious fundamentalists, mysogynists, gay bashers and anti-semites, etc., who populate the mainstream right.

  • aadila

    Larry,

    Let’s step back for a moment to my original point, which is that if the Oath Keepers are like any other conservative, values-driven, civic minded organzation (such as the Lions Club) why is it that you seem to draw so many extremists?

    If you are saying — as you did — that the problem is lack of moderation on the forums. Fine. You are saying, in broad strokes, that the Oath Keepers don’t stand for any of that, turn away the bad apples, and are just ordinary folks who see in Stewart Rhodes a kindly, erudite philanthropist whose goal is to make sure people are safer in America.

    So I ask you once again, if what you say is true, why is it that you have so many hard right, extremist, anti-government, violence-preaching, paranoid, insurrectionist Obama-haters seeking to use your oh-so innocent forum (which has Big Brother emblazoned over Obama’s face) to join hands and communicate subversive, even outright criminal, plans and activities?

    Answer the damn question.

  • Larry

    @aadila

    ““You might be interested to know that Stewart, the members of our Board of Directors, and most of the founding members of Oath Keepers I know are NOT Republicans.”

    So what was Stewart Rhodes doing working on Ron Paul’s Republican campaign. Why the active recruiting at Tea Party events? Don’t try weasel words with me. Libertarianism is what Republicans call themselves when they are too ashamed to call themselves Republicans.

    Whether or not you identify as a Republican is the least of my concerns. I am concerned about the hordes of right wing, anti-government, violence-preaching insurrectionist militia members who flock to your site seeking aid and comfort in their preparation for war against the US Government.”
    ******************************************

    Anyone who knows anything about Ron Paul knows that he’s not a real Republican. The GOP certainly knows it. That’s why they cheated their own primary / caucus process to make sure he didn’t win the nomination.

    “Libertarianism is what Republicans call themselves when they are too ashamed to call themselves Republicans.”

    Nonsense. Libertarianism has its roots in Classical Liberalism, and currently encompasses a widely varied collection of political opinions. When I said that Rhodes and other founding members of OK were not Koch-brothers-”beltway” libertarians, I meant it. You calling them something else does not make it so.

  • Larry

    @aron

    “Now you have such luminaries as Mark Kessler on your side. Nothing more need be said.”

    Oath Keepers supported Kessler when he initially made some statements about not enforcing new gun laws. When he announced an armed march on DC claiming to have our support when he did NOT — he didn’t even bother to ask, just like Kokesh did — he pitched a hissy fit and said all manner of nasty things about Oath Keepers.

    Unlike Kokesh who made a video cutting up his expired Oath Keepers membership card, Kessler was never even a member.

    Then when an anti-gun group put up a billboard near Gilberton, that said, “even the oath keepers dumped him” or some such, he went off on Oath Keepers again, as if we had something to do with the billboard. (The organization who put it up had their website right on the billboard. Clearly, Kessler is not the sharpest knife in the drawer).

    Then when he made his crazy gun-porn videos shooting full-auto at targets he named after his enemies, we were quite relieved that we had nothing to do with him.

    You might consider actually having your facts straight before embarassing yourself again.

    PS: I don’t know who “James” is, or what “RWNJ militia” you are referring to.

    I was not present when Stewart ignored you and the police supposedly abusing you. I suspect, however, that both happened because you were behaving rudely. I have known Stewart since 2007, and have never known him to be impolite to anyone.

  • Larry

    I never complained about “censorship” here. I simply stated the fact that SPLC has paid employees who moderate everything before it is posted. Oath Keepers main site does not. I also mentioned that one does NOT have to be a member of Oath Keepers to comment there. Any idiot on the web (and we all know there are plenty) can post comments there.

    Comments on the Oath Keepers website are usually NOT from members of the organization. We have our own private, thoroughly moderated forums where we discuss things.

  • Reynardine

    My comment about the soft-eyed, flop-eared hound that in the shadow of a second becomes more dangerous than a wolf… I give you Aadila.

    Twenty years ago, I brought home my beloved and beautiful hound, Bellona. I was blessed also to have her daughter, Mistletoe, and her son, Bull. I have her great-grandson, Burma, now. There are few human beings I would compare with this noble family.

    Aron, that was Brother Joseph of whom you spoke, and he is dearly missed.

  • aadila

    Rey, Aron. Don’t confuse outrage with power. It’s the opposite really. Real power means governing our own minds, conquering fear and extinguishing the roots of hatred. But sometimes certain things must be said, equinamity be damned. These people are legitimately dangerous.

  • aadila

    More racist, nativist, and criminal rhetoric from the “civilization” teams of the Oath Keepers:

    John L U.S.M.C. Says:
    October 9th, 2013 at 4:49 pm
    It’s time to take a stand against Obama and the other dredges of our country. The illegals, welfare rats and urban apes that are running this country into the ground. It’s time that we get back to traditional values and stand up to those who made our country what it used to be.

    Bilgefisher Says:
    October 9th, 2013 at 6:14 pm
    Thank you Jay. Keep up the good work. They want to make our life hell, we can do the same.

    Patriot1776 Kat Says:
    October 9th, 2013 at 10:46 pm
    How dare a foreigner come to our shores and ingratiate himself upon arrival and by whatever means necessary became our illicit leader…..you have now messed with the wrong group of individuals.

    Jim Says:
    October 1st, 2013 at 2:53 pm
    Some Suggestions:
    1) We need to have a communication system that is separate from phones, both land lines and mobile, because this would be the first thing the Feds would do to cut communications between Civilization Teams. The basic plan might be that if communications are shut down all team members are activated and would report to a predefined meeting point. The plan would also contain defensive plans that would be defined at activation by the leadership of each team so that any government spies cannot pinpoint and communicate the locations of each team.
    2) A document distributed to OK members, defining the best method to hide weapons and ammo from a government that will try to disarm citizens. My thought would be to bury weapons using PVC pipe with glued end caps to hide guns and ammo.
    3)We need to get info (spies) in local and state police, FBI, Homeland Security, military, etc (not friendly to patriots) as to their plans and who they will support.
    4)We should also have aplan to open Civilization Preservation teams to non-military people to increase our ranks. Many NRA (People who have guns), medical and other people we will needed.
    5) Ammo is important and team members must have enough to support their plans. Thought must be given on how much each member should plan to have available. Ammo is still hard to get in quantity and is expensive. Many members may not be able to purchase large quantities of ammo for both training and for emergency situations.

    Ian Says:
    October 1st, 2013 at 4:24 pm
    If we are looking to do a counter offensive….hackers should be included in the organizing plans….you could attack the electronic infrastructure and steal critical plans that would help communities survive

    Raider Says:
    October 1st, 2013 at 8:28 pm
    Equally important, will be setting up some kind of security unit whose whole purpose is to find and rout out the snitches and government infiltrators. You can bet the traitors in the FBI and other alphabet agencies are already making plans to try and squash this movement before it can successfully get started.

  • Aron

    And Larry, Stewey Rhodes has commented on this site. So we know he reads it. But he has never answered our questions.

    He also ducked my questions when I politely confronted him on my home turf of the Lexington Green here in Massachusetts. He conveniently seemed to not hear me despite my looking right in his eyes. And he also ignored the verbal abuse your brother ‘officers’ were slinging at me for having the audacity to question your beliefs.

    Also, if you knew some the commenters with whom we dealt in the past, you’d understand why there is moderation. Search the site for a ‘man’ named (and please forgive me dear friends) ‘funinsnow.’

    You should also look up our good friend James. He was a hardcore Okie Dokie like yourself. Then he began to realize he had already sworn an oath to protect his country. Pledging loyalty to some wannabe RWNJ militia just wasn’t necessary. So he left your sorry little group.

    Now you have such luminaries as Mark Kessler on your side. Nothing more need be said.

  • Aron

    Aadila, that was a beautiful piece of rhetoric. And I think Rey said it best :)

  • Gregory

    Larry,
    No one is stopping you from posting your drivel here and I suspect that you’ve never donated to the SPLC.

    And I have read the comments at the OK site. Many of them make the commenters at Prison Planet look sane and well educated.

  • aadila

    “You might be interested to know that Stewart, the members of our Board of Directors, and most of the founding members of Oath Keepers I know are NOT Republicans.”

    So what was Stewart Rhodes doing working on Ron Paul’s Republican campaign. Why the active recruiting at Tea Party events? Don’t try weasel words with me. Libertarianism is what Republicans call themselves when they are too ashamed to call themselves Republicans.

    Whether or not you identify as a Republican is the least of my concerns. I am concerned about the hordes of right wing, anti-government, violence-preaching insurrectionist militia members who flock to your site seeking aid and comfort in their preparation for war against the US Government.

  • aadila

    Larry,

    Here are a few comments culled from the Oath Keepers in recent days. By the way, SPLC let you speak your piece so what basis do you have for claiming censorship? None.

    How can you possibly claim what you claim about the Oath Keepers when objectively about 50% of the comments on your site are exactly of the same delusional, paranoid, insurrectionist, violent, and outright crazy sort such as the following. So, once again, if Oath Keepers is just a civic minded organization, why exactly is it about you that draws so many nut jobs?

    Read it and weep, baby:

    “If the people prefer to be slaves and take orders from a “boss”, how can that be changed since it is not happening anyway currently?Many shiped (sic) in immigrants are from exactly that type (dictator) of government and they cannot understand anything else – to them anything else is just words.”

    “Cal”

    Dictatorship to democracy? or demon-ocracy as I like to call it. Must not be referring to America because we currently are living in a soft dictatorship but NOWHERE in the constitution will you find the word democracy.

    “Kb”

    “Newport News Police and Virginia State Police are implanting citizens with a microchip that enables ubiquitous surveillance. In Safeguards in a World of Ambient Intelligence page 9 it describes seeing through your eyes what your brain sees, hearing what you hear and recording your thoughts. It starts like clicking noises until your brain is imprinted.”

    “JB Smith”

    “Yes, I would like to see a great number of traitors lined up and shot”

    Neil Wampler

    “Eventually some American will have had enough and will fire the second shot heard around the world, and a Federal officer will die. When it happens then all that we can hope for is that his or her friends and neighbors will come out of the woodwork with their own weapons to support them.”

    Dr Clifford N Alford

  • Reynardine

    Well, damme, Larry, then where is this famous Syrian war we’re in? I’d have a suggestion for what you should take out of your ear, but the Hays office would bust me. As it is, I have to keep writing my age in Roman numerals for the next three weeks.

  • Reynardine

    Aadila, when you come out of the flowerkid dreamland, you are truly formidable. Kudos!

  • Larry

    @aadila

    “To the Oath Keepers:

    You are ready now to take up arms to “defend” the Constitution. But where were you over the past 100 years while our rights were trampled?

    (snip)

    And now, that what we have been saying for 100 years has come full circle, and you see that your own civil rights are threatened, when this has been happening all this time to others, all of a sudden, it’s time to play the victim. Your hypocrisy disgusts me. It embarrasses me that you call yourselves the guardians of the Constitution.”
    ****************************************

    I wasn’t even born when most of those things happened. You probably weren’t around for most of them either.

    Where was SPLC before SPLC existed? Shall we blame them for all injustices that happened before that?

    I gave you a link to Stewart’s paper written while Bush the Dumber was President. Did you bother to read it?

    You might be interested to know that Stewart, the members of our Board of Directors, and most of the founding members of Oath Keepers I know are NOT Republicans. They are libertarians. And when I say that, I do NOT mean the corporatist, Koch brothers, beltway kind. Most of them are what could be called “Minarchist” and some of us are even “Voluntaryists.”

    If you are indeed concerned about abusive police and military power, you should be applauding our efforts and helping us, not railing against us. We are making very real progress in reaching out to other oath takers and helping them to wake up and realize their duty to exercise their conscience.

    You should be GLAD we are here doing what we are doing.

  • Larry

    ***********************************
    Larry,

    So, the alarmist “Big Brother” sign stamped over Obama’s picture on the OK site is to be construed as rational, clear thinking, and non-partisan?
    ***********************************

    When the GOP puts the next soulless liar in the Whitehouse, and does not stop spying on the American people, we’ll update the image. Count on it.

    *****************************************
    One need only pursue some of the anti-Obama, anti-immigrant, anti-government, paranoid and ignorant comments in your entire site to recognize that whatever you claim the OK to be is quickly debunked by your very own members who are obviously disgruntled and dangerous extremists.
    ******************************************

    Unlike this website that has paid minions to moderate everything posted here, the Oath Keepers site does not moderate comments unless they are reported to someone as being truly horrific (violent, racists, anti-semitic, etc.) ANYONE can post comments there, not just Oath Keeper members.

    ******************************************
    As an aside, the irony of police officers wailing NOW about civil liberties is truly rich. What is it those of us who have fought all our lives for civil liberties heard time and time again by the hard right LEO community?
    *****************************************

    I have had plenty of bad experiences with abusive, authoritarian, condescending cops. That’s why we are attempting to reach out to them and educate them on the Bill of Rights. Our LEOs are keenly aware of the sickness that afflicts our police, and are doing what they can to combat it, but they are also aware that they are a minority among police, most of whom are more than happy to “just follow orders.”

    *******************************************
    “If you have nothing to hide, why are you worried?”
    *******************************************

    Danke, Herr Goebbels.

  • aadila

    And my riff ain’t through!

    Now it’s you who has to shut your mouth with your hands up while somebody with a badge and gun sticks his hands down your pants, treating you like a criminal every time you fly a plane, suddenly that’s not ok. When did cops ever stop doing that to people of color? Can’t speak up about it or you go to jail? Well what happens to citizens who tell you to take your filthy hand out of their crotch? Come now, don’t lie. We all know it’s true.

    Now it’s you who has to grin and bear it with no legal recourse while some government official goes rifling through your personal things, your correspondence and your private life, when you have done no wrong, suddenly now that’s a problem for America. Now that you are the innocent ones being treated like a criminal, that’s not ok. Funny how that works out since that’s what cops have been doing to Americans for ages. It’s called stop and frisk!

    Now that it’s your rights, your lives, your freedoms being violated, now you stand up and do something about it. But where were you when we were saying that in the fifties, the sixties, the seventies, the eighties, the nineties up to today?

    You see, you people don’t care about America. You care about your special status as cops and military, being above suspicion and being above the law while you get to do what you damn well please. For every cop who thinks it’s funny to slam on the brakes with a cuffed prisoner in back, well now, you are getting a taste of it yourself.

    Hate to say it people, but it’s been a long time coming. What goes around comes around. It was a long time coming, but now it’s here, ladies and gentlemen, and we warned you this would happen.

    So what do you do? Do you give money to the ACLU, the SPLC, the ADL, and various other groups who have devoted decades of time, effort, and resources to making America a freer and better place? No. You set up your own right wing militia network and turn your back on America, saying you are going your own way.

    Well, that kind of selfish attitude, that kind of self-righteous indignation when suddenly it’s the government sniffing out your innocence instead of you doing it to others, now you feel like it’s time to do something. What we’ve been saying all along, you johnny-come-lately crybabies try to co-opt civil rights as some sort of right wing mantra when it is the right wing that has been doing everything in its power to destroy civil rights for ages.

    And you wonder why we doubt you.

  • MRJ

    Here, a REAL example of tolerance and equality:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....57381.html

    A beautiful photo collage of how we, as a people and Country as established, are supposed to be.
    Kind of holes a thousand or so stereotypes at the waterline.

    @ Reynardine,

    Thank You. Your words mean so much more than you know.

  • aadila

    To the Oath Keepers:

    You are ready now to take up arms to “defend” the Constitution. But where were you over the past 100 years while our rights were trampled?

    In the 20s when harmless immigrants were spied on, framed and executed for their political persuasion, where were you?

    In the 50s when academics, activists, public figures and ordinary citizens were hauled over the coals by right wing witch hunters such as McCarthy, who spied upon, framed, and attempted to destroy the lives and reputations of those who did agree with him, where were you?

    When in the 60’s, civil rights activists in the south were spied on, framed, harassed, beaten, sprayed with fire hoses, terrorized by dogs, and “buried under the jail” by so-called law enforcement officers, where were you?

    When in the 70’s right wing Richard Nixon kept a watch list of political enemies and ordered the FBI to spy on, frame, burgle and bring all forms of harm upon those with different political views, where were you?

    When the Bush government halted the vote and selected himself to office, when he dismantled habeus corpus, when he set up secret courts, when he sent our people to die on false pretense, why did so many on the right wing people say, it needs to be done, these are desperate times, times of war require extreme measures to protect ourselves from terror. Where were you?

    I can tell you where you were: you were at the vanguard of these efforts to destroy civil liberties. You were cheering it on.

    And now, that what we have been saying for 100 years has come full circle, and you see that your own civil rights are threatened, when this has been happening all this time to others, all of a sudden, it’s time to play the victim. Your hypocrisy disgusts me. It embarrasses me that you call yourselves the guardians of the Constitution.

  • aadila

    Larry,

    So, the alarmist “Big Brother” sign stamped over Obama’s picture on the OK site is to be construed as rational, clear thinking, and non-partisan?

    One need only pursue some of the anti-Obama, anti-immigrant, anti-government, paranoid and ignorant comments in your entire site to recognize that whatever you claim the OK to be is quickly debunked by your very own members who are obviously disgruntled and dangerous extremists.

    As an aside, the irony of police officers wailing NOW about civil liberties is truly rich. What is it those of us who have fought all our lives for civil liberties heard time and time again by the hard right LEO community?

    “If you have nothing to hide, why are you worried?”

  • Larry

    @Reynardine

    The Peace Prize President mentioned in the previous sentence. While grammatically imperfect, I thought that was pretty clear.

  • Reynardine

    Larry, who is this “he” without antecedent?

  • Reynardine

    As it has inexplicably been held up by the Hays Office, I wish to reiterate my appreciation of MRJ’s commentary as well.

  • Larry

    “We are in every State in the Union and several countries. We are fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, sons, daughters, grand mothers, grand fathers and all of us are willing to defend the Constitution.”

    Why are you in other countries defending the US Constitution?
    **********************************************

    Remember all those wars that the Peace Prize President promised to end? And now he has a boner for Syria that makes McCain look like a hippie.

  • Larry

    “Oath Keepers has never said anything about “seizing power” or being a “parallel government.” This recent emphasis on emergency preparedness is just that – emergency preparedness.”

    And that emergency is the loss of an election to the Democrats? Please.
    *************************************

    I am libertarian, NOT Republican. The GOP is to blame for most of the undermining of the Bill of Rights we have seen since 911. I recommend for everyone here who assumes that Obama’s election was the inspiration for Oath Keepers, to look up and read Stewart Rhode’s award-winning paper he wrote at Yale Law School, “Solving the Puzzle of Enemy Combatant Status.” Link here: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/wp.....-enemy.pdf

    He wrote this scathing critique of the Bush Administration’s policies in 2004.

    Also consider reading this transcript of a speech Rhodes gave to a county Republican party in Nevada. He squarely places the blame for the current mess we are in on the hypocrisy of Republican politicians. http://oathkeepers.org/oath/20.....can-party/

    *******************************************************
    “People distrust FEMA with good reason. Hurricaine Katrina was a complete Charlie-Foxtrot. Training local communities to take care of themselves rather than waiting for “help” from FEMA is just good sense.”

    A truism. Your organization did not take shape until three years later, a month after Obama’s inauguration, and is by anyone’s description a far right, political organization which formed around right wing hysteria over Obama. The fact that Obama has not done any of the awful things you feared utterly discredited your movement, so now you have to rescue your credibility by claiming mere civic interest in disaster relief.
    *********************************************

    The fact that none of the “10 orders” have been issued by Obama is just more evidence that Obama is NOT the reason Oath Keepers was formed. The examples given in the “10 orders we will not obey” are there because many of them have happened in our history, including several of them that happened in the Katrina aftermath.

    But even though these things have happened before, they were not listed because of any fear of impending doom. When the state ratifying conventions insisted on having the Bill of Rights added to the Constitution, it was NOT because they thought Washington was going to take their guns, or that Adams was going to house government troops in their homes. (Adams DID take a giant dump on the 1st Amendment, but I digress).

    They added the Bill of Rights to the Constitution because they were things that happened in the past by abusive governments. Were they “paranoid” or “conspiracy theorists?” Or are you glad they insisted on adding the Bill of Rights before ratifying the Constitution? I sure am.

    *************************************************
    But if you are concerned with disaster relief, which would affect anyone of any poltical persuasion, why so one sided in your politics?
    *************************************************

    Oath Keepers is non-partisan. We don’t ask anyone what their preferred political party is, because we don’t care. Your assertion that we are “one sided in [our] politics” is simply false. We aren’t on anyone’s “side,” except that of Liberty, the Constitution, and the American People.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Yeah ZK, that’s exactly what this article says. If you want to help yourself you’re a terrorist. That’s apparently ALL Oath Keepers is about. Helping yourself.

  • Reynardine
  • aadila

    Gregory, I think the Oakies can best be described as a problem in search of a solution.

  • ZK

    This site is too black or white. If you want to help your self you’re a terrorist. If you want the government to help you’re the enemy. How about do a reality check on your freedoms and read articles from all sources to find YOUR truth. If one says it its probably BS if a lot do look into that truth.

  • MRJ

    Oops… Ruslan: hats off for your post.
    Your dollar for my $.02.

  • Reynardine

    Ruslan, I shall never cease to admire your patience in explaining such complex matters to such simple, but malignant, organisms.

  • MRJ

    “We are from all walks of life. We are in every aspect of society. From doctors to janitors, we are watching you.”

    Threat?

    “Call us what you will, but we cannot be silenced or shamed, or stopped. We want nothing more than to uphold the Constitution and hold accountable those who would destroy it. We will not waiver from our mission and are willing to lay down our lives to protect this country as laid out by our founding fathers. Our Oaths do not expire.”

    Does this include the 14th, 15th, the 19th, etc…. or just to the 10th, as so many “Take America Back” mind sets seem to think?
    “… as laid out by our founding fathers.”
    The founding fathers allowed for the adaptation of the Constitution “to form a more perfect Union”.
    As many of these individuals seem to think that Civil Rights, fair and equal opportunity for everyone must be curtailed in some way for the betterment of a select few of “civilized” peoples, I, personally, would really love to see what “civilization” and defending personal liberties actually means, and who, pray tell, on this/these page/pages particularly, are trying to “destroy the Constitution”?
    Please expound.
    Who here is trying to destroy the Constitution?
    Who are the “civilized”?

    This below as a definition of Liberal by the Michigan Patriot Alliance on their “We Hate” page.
    Liberals being equated to Nazis, Communists, etc. by their inclusion under the “People we will show the door”.

    http://www.michiganpatriotalliance.com/

    “Liberalism – As defined by today’s political climate. True, or “classical liberals” are actually libertarian in construct, which is totally different. Today’s liberals look to the government to solve all issues, to do all thinking, to provide all necessities. This belief is so anti-American when compared to precedent and historical practice that it makes ones head spin trying to understand why someone would actually want to be a liberal. MPA folks are self-sufficient, like to make their own decisions, and don’t need a “nanny”. Further, we believe in capitalism, as espoused by Adam Smith.”

    An example:

    http://sipseystreetirregulars......ndred.html

    “We will not go gently . . .”
    This is no small thing, to restore a republic after it has fallen into corruption. I have studied history for years and I cannot recall it ever happening. It may be that our task is impossible. Yet, if we do not try then how will we know it can’t be done? And if we do not try, it most certainly won’t be done. The Founders’ Republic, and the larger war for western civilization, will be lost.

    But I tell you this: We will not go gently into that bloody collectivist good night. Indeed, we will make with our defiance such a sound as ALL history from that day forward will be forced to note, even if they despise us in the writing of it.

    And when we are gone, the scattered, free survivors hiding in the ruins of our once-great republic will sing of our deeds in forbidden songs, tending the flickering flame of individual liberty until it bursts forth again, as it must, generations later. We will live forever, like the Spartans at Thermopylae, in sacred memory.

    – Mike Vanderboegh, The Lessons of Mumbai:Death Cults, the “Socialism of Imbeciles” and Refusing to Submit, 1 December 2008″

    “… the larger war for western civilization”?
    “hiding in the ruins”?

    “We are everywhere. We are everyone. We will win.”

    Noooo…. Some people actually believe that progress is attained without regression.

  • Sam Molloy

    The Oath Keepers actually have a lot in common with the original goals of the SPLC. You should search for this common ground and join forces instead of tilting at windmills and trying to instill fear, panic and divisiveness.